I realize that this is a bold statement. I realize this might offend some people who I have formed friendships or acquaintances with, however, having lived both lifestyles, I feel I can voice my opinion confidently (although it is based solely on experiences in Germany as shown below).
I truly mean no harm to anyone’s feelings. This is in no way some example of a lack of patriotism. And by no means is it meant to show ANY disrespect to the military,their families and the difficult roles they endure.
It’s a clarification on the use of a word.
It’s the truth.
Physical location is the only way in which this definition would loosely apply to you.
Let’s take a look…..
Military Families
- You do not have a foreign bank account and still receive your income in U.S. dollars. You bank at American banks, on base, that are set up to utilize that particular country’s banking system.
- You receive a USAREUR license, not a foreign driver’s license. While the test you take is similar, it is not as extensive as the one you’d take without your military umbrella. You are not required to attend any sort of driving school (aside from the short safety briefing) or have your license translated. The fee you pay is minimal in comparison. (last known, $10)
- When you shop off-base you refer to shopping in the “economy”.
- You have VAT forms making you exempt from paying local sales taxes.
- When you file your federal taxes, typically your stateside residence is what is used thereby excluding you from sometimes providing information related to foreign income and savings.
- Your medical insurance is still covered by the U.S. government and in most instances, you do not have to use foreign hospitals or treatment facilities.
- You have a special SOFA (Status of Forces Agreement) passport as well as your tourist passport. Your SOFA passport grants you residency in another country for the length of your tour.
- You are exempt from paying international postage fees when mailing anything to and from the U.S. Along those same lines, you can receive mail from any company that ships to APO addresses from the states.
- You are exempt from paying the local gas prices both on and off-base. (last known, $3.55/gallon)
- You are provided COLA (cost of living allowance) with your housing and utilities paid for whether you live on or off base.
- You are exempt from paying annual vehicle taxes that are required in Germany. Furthermore, you don’t have to pay for your car inspection.
Expats
- We have foreign bank accounts, no access to U.S. dollars and pay bills through the foreign banking system.
- Depending on what state you are from, in Germany you must either take the written and practical test, only the written test or you’re lucky and your stateside license transfers over completely. Based on those first two scenarios, you have to enroll in driving school. Furthermore, you must have your stateside license translated and pay all appropriate fees. We also must acquire our own study guides which are not always provided for free. (In my case, it’s a total of €250)
- The “economy” is my home, no differently than the U.S. is your home when you are there. Expats don’t use such terms as there is no other shopping option such as the commissary or BX.
- We pay the sales taxes with no exemptions. (19% here)
- We file taxes using our foreign address and in some cases are required to submit documentation from foreign accounts.
- We are covered through insurance provided in our country of residence. We only utilize healthcare options available in our country.
- We only have our tourist passports and must go through the visa/immigration process rendering us our residence permits.
- We only have access to our postal system, thus paying high international shipping rates and no access to stateside companies unless they ship internationally (again high fees) or they have an international store.
- Obviously, we must pay the local gas price which as of now is around $8.55/gallon in Germany.
- We don’t receive any kind of financial assistance or benefits for being an American living in another country.
- We pay, on average, €100 per year in taxes for our vehicle and the inspection costs €90 every two years.
Bottom Line
Expats live according to the laws and governing systems in the countries in which they have chosen to reside. Military families receive benefits for their service and maintain as close to an American lifestyle as possible while living in another country. Both choices are voluntary, but very different lifestyles.
I absolutely agree that military members and their families should receive these benefits.
I completely disagree that you should call yourselves expatriates.
While you may live here in the physical sense, you don’t live here. Take away access to your American life, fully divulge yourself into the lifestyle and culture of another country, follow their rules and systems and only then you’ll know what I’m talking about.
Yes, I once lived overseas as a dependent of a military member.
No, I never, not once, called myself an expat.
But I do now.
I have no ties to my “American” life aside from family and friends in the U.S. I fully embrace Germany as my home and do my best to live here just as any German would; no exemptions.
I live my life solely as an American expatriate in Germany.
I am an Expat.
Informative post, Deanna! So what event or person sparked your writing it?
Thanks Erica! It is more the misuse of the word that I feel like is minimizing the value and significance of the lifestyle. It feels like misrepresentation. It’s also a realization that slapped me hard in the face when I became an expat. It was nowhere near as easy as when I was here with the military.
I get what you’re saying. Having lived in Germany and France as an expat in the years before Fionn (dealing with visas, residency issues, German taxes, American food care packages from home, etc) and then after as an army dependent, it is two extremely different experiences. The base can be such a bubble and it keeps you from really integrating.
My thing is…what do we call that then? I avoided calling myself an “expat” my first year as an army wife abroad but eventually started when I started interacting with the blog community and saw that while I did have a commissary, I went through all the same culture shock and emotional difficulties of an expat adjusting to life abroad like I did before Army. Maybe that was also because our base was teeny tiny and forgotten so we didn’t get a lot of the perks bigger bases get…but still. I totally agree with you, the experience is a lot different when you’re in the military, not to mention easier in some ways. I definitely preferred life abroad as an Army wife, but when I talk about my experiences, there isn’t a word that sums it up as well (or as clearly to people who aren’t in the know about my situation) than “expat”.
On a personal note, this kind of hit home because when I first moved to Germany, I got the cold shoulder from a lot of the “real expat” ladies I tried to befriend. They had their own ideas about “Army people” and I didn’t get much of a chance. It was probably an isolated incident and they were probably just cliquey people, but as a lonely newbie in a foreign land, it really sucked getting excluded for not being “expat enough” or “just an Army wife”. It kinda creates an “Us vs Them” when it should be “I get what you’re going through”.
Maybe “military expat” would be a better term? I dunno. This seems like one of those English language failings that Germans would totally have a word for. I like the discussion your post is creating! No offense taken here ;) This is why different perspectives make things more interesting!
I’m so glad you were not offended Shannon and that you understand the point I’m trying to make. I don’t know that there needs to be a term for it. When I was here as a military spouse, that’s what I called it. I think those people are just cliquey and it happens regardless. I have met military Americans who exclude me because I am a “local national” and also expats because I’m not wealthy enough. It doesn’t matter what you call it when it comes to judgmental people like that.
For me, my experience was definitely different as far as culture shock. I think how you described it is perfect: the base can be such a bubble. Sure, it was still culture shock, but I was still surrounded by English speaking people who were also guiding us through all the processes, with English speaking television and shopping at the commissary with American products. When I moved here as an expat, I had none of that. I’m sure you remember. :-)
I’m enjoying the discussion too and it’s interesting to read other perspectives. Thanks for sharing yours.
I absolutely agree with this. I am really into blog reading (shocking, I know) and I rarely follow army wife blogs. I mean, that is for a number of reasons, but a large part is that I just don’t connect with their stories and their lifestyles. It’s like they’re living in a small American town which just happens to be surrounded by another country.
It’s absolutely not an “us vs. them” or “one is better than the other” mentality, it’s just that life on a military base is not expat life.
I agree that the term is not meant to separate us into different groups or an “us vs. them” mentality. It’s a different lifestyle and experience and I think by using the therm expat casually, it takes away from those of us who are truly experiencing it. And that’s exactly what I think, a small american town surrounded by another country. Thanks for weighing in, Polly!
I think it is a very hard line to draw, honestly for me while sometimes to make it easy I will call myself expat life or participate in various expat things online however I honestly think that for me immigrant is the most apt term for a person living long term such as we are in a foreign country. So for me if a person who is living abroad with the military were to call themselves and immigrant I would take offense but I think expat fits just fine.
I can see your point about using the word immigrant. Thanks for sharing your opinions Bailie!
Pingback: Shout out time…is there a difference between an expat and military family | living the american dream in europe
This was a great post, thanks for posting it!!
Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for sharing!
Agreed girl! I have lived both, and this current situation I am in I float the line. My boyfriend is military, he gets all the benefits. I do not. I work and live off the German economy. I get paid and pay taxes in euros. My health a insurance is much better than his I believe ;) it’s funny when I hear the other Americans around claim to be ex pats but have never had to deal with the struggle of getting a resident visa in Germany. They will never understand how easy they have it, and I will never take it for granted having lived like a real ex pat. :) thanks for sharing :)
Oh so true. I love that last part. I’ll never take either for granted. Both are different experiences with different trials and tribulations. But I definitely feel that they use the expat term incorrectly when feeling a need to label themselves. For me, it takes away from the value of what we go through as expats. Thanks for weighing in and glad to have another supporter who is able to see both sides as well.
How very true!! There is a bubble that separates military members from the local community, and I have found (through military members I know in Australia) that the bubble continues even back in their own countries. Army people hang out with other army people, blah blah blah. Now, when you actually move to another country on your own volition, that’s when things get tricky. There is no higher power getting your paperwork sorted for you, it’s all on you. And no translator provided either. As a study abroad student, you are still somewhat sheltered from real expat life. But, in all my studies, I set up a local bank account. I found an apartment, on my own. I had to sort shit out, on my own. And I willingly assimilated with the local culture because that was a major reason for my being there. Not to detract from military members and their own sacrifices, but the word expat in its truest definition does not apply. Until you’ve had to go through a visa process on your own accord, you can’t call yourself an expat. That’s the right of passage in my book lol.
The bubble is a great analogy. They have someone candling them, holding their hand and helping them do everything that needs to be done. They even have the housing office that handles their contracts when they live off base. In my opinions it’s absolutely nothing like the experience of an expat. They technically never even have to leave base if they didn’t want to.
Haha! Definitely!
Hi 3B. This is such an interesting post on so many levels. My hubby had been in the military for over 20 years when I met him. We were both living in Canada at the time, but if anything, I considered him an expat in his homeland! The military is just such a parallel universe; priority access to healthcare, their own policing system and trial processes, their own ‘culture’ within their native culture. It was just all amazing to me.
Then we became ‘true’ expats in the Middle East (I.e. No ties to the military). But in many ways we’re not able to integrate totally into this society, and we always know that one day we’ll go home or elsewhere. And for me, that’s what makes us expats … the fact that we can’t be immigrants or ever gain citizenship here, can’t ever really fit in here or make this our forever home.
Yet I get your point; and I think it’s an awesome post to get all us “away from homers” thinking about our situation and what this time away from home means to us and how it affects us.
Thanks!
Hi 3B! I know I had someone else respond to me on twitter who disagreed on the fact that this was only relatable to the U.S. Military which is true. I have no idea how other military systems work or other countries. That’s an interesting point about why you feel you are expats. Someone else mentioned they think “immigrant” would be a better term for people like me who plan to live here permanently. And I’m open to that suggestion as well. But I think for Americans who are surrounded by the bubble of the military here, with everything in English,American food restaurants and shopping, and having to go through none of the process, I’m hard-pressed to see them as expats. Thanks for weighing in and sharing your view! I’m really enjoying the discussion and so relieved no one has been offended.
As someone who has lived both, you’re in a really good position to make comparisons. I’ve never been a military spouse and don’t personally know any so I’d hate to judge what their life is like. What I can say is that there are so many different kinds of expat. We get so much support working for the company we do that we don’t have to deal with a lot of what you talk about handling in Germany. That’s not just because we live in different countries - there are expats here who do have to deal with what you talk about - but because of the circumstances in which we have found ourselves living abroad. Expat experience is different for everyone; some certainly have it easier than others.
That said, I do find it harder to relate to military expat blogs and so tend to read them less than I read other blogs. Their experience is so far from my own in a lot of respects that I don’t really ‘get it’.
I do agree that the experience is different from everyone. And I definitely agree there are different types of expats. I struggle to call military members/dependent a expats because of the umbrella under which they live. To me, it’s more like an extended vacation. Sure, they visit the country but they are not immersed in it the same way. But, as I just said to Shannon on her post, my opinions are based on my experiences and maybe that’s this difference in all of it. Experience.
Thanks for weighing in and sharing your perspective!
Oh how I love this! I recently removed myself from a few Facebook groups because it turned into another military overtaking. I couldn’t handle the comments when people were complainin that their military base grocery store filled with American items were running out of crescent rolls. The world was ending but what they all didn’t seem to know was there are incredible bakeries on every corner that have rolls and much more! The ignorance pains me and I can’t stand their padded world when we expats are out here trying to adjust to a different life. They are not expats…100% agree. Thank you for this post!
I had to reply to the crescent roll post…that made me laugh because I know exactly which Facebook group you are referring to. Although, to be fair, that group has been military-centric since it’s creation…it was started by military wives (although one was a military wife from Croatia).
Personally, I could not care less what label people come up with. I work for an American company, live in downtown Stuttgart, but have access to the bases and some of their benefits. So, whether people think I’ve “earned” the title of expat or not isn’t something I care about, but maybe it’s because I didn’t have to go through everything you did so I don’t feel any special affinity to the term.
Moving here was my first experience living overseas, so it was challenging compared to my previous life experiences, even if it was easy compared to people who move here without support.
For awhile, I never cared either. It was only recently where it felt like a surge in military spouses calling themselves expats and to be honest it just felt like a huge misrepresentation. For me, it matters because when you use any word casually or out if context, it takes away from the value. Does it affect my life? No. But this is a blog, a place for sharing one’s personal views/opinions and receiving feedback from the public. That being said, I’m loving the dialogue. Thanks for weighing in and sharing your experience.
I agree and disagree. I feel there can be many types of expats. This post almost seems elitist and filled with comments that are somewhat negative.
Yes as military spouses we do have a sort of bubble but to compare ALL military experiences is where I draw the line. I shop off base, I go to the German hospital plus have lived there since we’ve been here because of my daughter’s clubfeet, I speak little German and use it daily, I love off base. To say I go mostly to American places to eat, or that I pretty much only go to base is crap. I rarely go on base but to check mail, for clinic appointments etc.
I’d say military ‘expats’ do get to immerse themselves in the culture. The military does not protect us from everything and we DO have to follow our host countries rules. I think you should be using the term immigrant and see no problem with military members or spouses using the term expat.
Again, difference of opinion but immigrant would be far more fitting for all these ‘true’ expats and I say it like that because again, it sounds very elitist. I believe there are many different expats, military spouses can be one.
I apologize if you found the post elitist. As far as the negative comments, there aren’t any in the actual post. It’s all fact and the only opinion in the post is mine in how the term expat is applied and used.
However, I do agree with you that it’s a generalization based on my experience which I also stated in the essay. I can also see your point on using the term expat. Thanks for weighing in with your opinion!
I’ve ran into the same thing along with the overload of complaints about Germany and the things they have to do to live here. I think that’s what becomes frustrating because they don’t even fully experience what it takes to actually live here. It’s like a prolonged visitation. I’m glad you enjoyed the post!
Pingback: Sunday Currently - Spontaneity is Great |
Great post and thoughts, Deanna, about a term I had never heard of when I was part of military life in the early 80′s in Berlin.
Then, I identified myself as, first, an active duty soldier, and then a dependent (before the more “politically correct” term of family member was introduced) — we lived off post for a year and then in military housing for another, but the entire time we still shopped in the Commissary, were paid in US dollars, worked in English, and felt as if we were in our own little American bubble … enhanced by the fact we were behind the Wall at that point in time, too — we really WERE isolated! Part of the Berlin Brigade Band, we traveled often in and out of the city — and our sponsors talked to us in English. Personal trips to shop, eat, and explore in Berlin itself — West and East — were part of the routine, but they were like little travel opportunities and almost mini-vacations, not a necessary means of finding the essentials for day-to-day living. (That might also say more about my first husband’s and my personalities than the military experience, but that’s the way it was for us.)
With that background, when I moved to Norway in 2007 I somewhat naively thought that life as expat/wife of a Norwegian would be similar to my experiences in Berlin.
Holy hell. Not even close. ;)
I read this yesterday when you first posted it, but wanted to stop back and read the comments I knew you’d receive before adding my own thoughts. You have such a varied following; they add a great deal to your original post! I particularly respond to the ones that talk about the military “bubble” extending back in the U.S. and the military being a parallel universe. It really can be its own little world! I think that, aside from my missing my adult daughters so very much now that I’m settled in another country, I miss being a part of that Military Life almost as much — but didn’t realize it until I moved away from Fort Meade, even though I’d been separated from my former husband for a time and felt mostly “civilianized.”
Thanks for writing on this topic and starting such an interesting conversation, Deanne!
Just wanted to say, you have such a super cool perspective! I can’t even imagine being stationed in Berlin in the 80s!
Thanks Shannon! It was a surreal time, especially as I really was so naive I didn’t appreciate the enormous impact of it until after the fact.
And, another point I forgot to mention in my original comment — my first daughter was born in Berlin, in the American hospital. I was surrounded by English, had military doctors and nurses, and didn’t experience what a German hospital and birth (or prenatal checkups) would have been like. Talking to younger American friends here in Norway — and reading of their experiences through their blogs — makes me realize that OTHER aspect of “immigrant expat” vs “military family member” life that separates the two. I really don’t think I could have done it as anything other than a military family member, and I have a great deal of respect for the expat Moms who give birth in their new country!
Me either and what an experience that must have been!
Cindi I can’t even begin to imagine the things you’ve seen and the stories you have. I also find it interesting that you seem to share my views on the subject. I know some are taking it as an “us vs them” but that’s really not my intention. I also have no intention of trying to take away from anyone’s experiences. This is simply based on my thoughts and experiences and I feel like when a word is used out of context it takes away from the value. However, I can also see the point others have made that maybe immigrant is a more appropriate word for people like me. I would feel though, that expat does not apply to the military life. And military bubble is an excellent term, isn’t it? Thanks for reading and sharing your perspective. I’m loving the dialogue this has created!
Regensburg is pretty close to Hohenfels, so I run into a lot of military folk, and I have to say- there’s a clear delineation even between those who live on base and those who choose to live off base. The further you distance yourself from “Little America,” the more likely you are to integrate into your temporarily adopted country.
(Full disclosure: I’m not military. I’m just here for my job.)
I agree. The area I live in is only 30 minutes from base, but its far enough that there are typically not any Americans here on a regular basis. When we get closer to the base, there is a definite difference even in the area. I like the term, “Little America”. Thanks for reading and weighing in.
Deanna,
There is a huge difference as you know first hand. I had some contact with the expat community while there as a military spouse but mainly online as most in our local area were mil families.
As military families we have options not available to expats with no military connections. Some of us choose to immerse ourselves in the culture while others choose to stay wrapped in the Little America bubble that their base provides. I remember when the commissary was going to shut down due to budget cuts. People lost their minds! My husband and I were like, “Um hello? Germany has supermarkets, and the quality of food is better!”
Being that both of my parents are Greek, I knew I wanted to experience Germany as I had Greece. We made a conscious decision to try and immerse ourselves. The first thing I did was learn some rudimentary German. Online lessons, German textbooks and reading supermarket fliers and other adverts helped me immensely. I remember the first time I shopped and actually understood what the cashier was saying to me. I walked out so proud LOL!
Our kids went to kindergarten in our village, we went to local festivals, our village’s soccer matches, talked to the locals, made German friends, etc.
It was difficult and anxiety ridden but we kept at it.
I’ve also met many Americans who after several years in Germany spoke no more than Danke and Bitte ein Bit. To me that seemed pointless but I suppose to each their own. In the end, they are the ones who missed out, not us. I remember being at the McD’s in Bitburg and I see this Mil spouse march right up to the counter and start ordering in English. Not so much as a “Sprechen sie Englisch?” before she started rattling off her order. I found that incredibly rude and saw it time and time and again. When I went up, I ordered in German and apologized for my not so wonderful German. The harried guy behind the counter said to me, “No, no, you are doing great and thank you!”
I think whether you’re an expat or mil family you need to respect the culture of the land you’re living in and make an attempt at assimilation.
Anyway, miss you and let me know if you need me to send you anything. xoxoxo!
Stacey,
You make some excellent points! It’s true, my post may have been a bit of a generalization because there are several military members, like yourself, that do immerse themselves into the culture. But it’s that sense of entitlement I see in so many military members that adds to my feelings that they are not expats. Just as you provided in that example, they expect to not have to adapt. When you really live here, you have no choice! I can also see why some people would call me an immigrant and feel that a better term. It’s definitely all based on our personal experiences I suppose.
Anyway, I’m so glad you shared your experience and also that you understand what I’m trying to say. Thanks for reading and commenting! Miss you lots! Xoxox
Though I understand the post, and you have experienced both lifestyles, but this post still has a “you can’t sit with us” kind of tone. People have different opinions and though living in another country but still living within the american bubble of the base may be much easier for those living it, we all still share that feeling of missing the people we left behind. And you’re also kind of just clumping them all together. Some may actually live outside of that bubble a bit and experience the country surrounding them. I know it was just a general observation, but the tone seems like a kick in the “nuts” to some military wives or families.
I can somewhat see what you’re saying by possibly two of the comments I made in the post. However, the majority of the post is just a bunch of facts. I do agree that it’s a generalization based on my experience and opinions, but most essays are. Thanks for commenting!
Hi Deanna, I wrote a response to this post and Shannon’s post over on Shannon’s blog if you want to check it out. :)
Hi Brittany!
I did go over and read your comment. I think we definitely all have our opinions about this topic and it’s generated some great discussion. I would never imply that a term would take away from someone’s experience. I also acknowledge that this is a generalization based on my experience. And I can see why immigrant would also apply to my lifestyle. Thanks for letting me know about your comment and joining in on the discussion! The dialogue has been really interesting!
I read this kind of half waiting for the catch. But there isn’t one. So all I got is “Well…DUH!”
Well written though, and with the differences easily laid out to compare. Thanks - it’s been an education. I had no idea they were that vastly different.
Haha! No catch just mostly facts with my “generalized opion” as so many have felt obligated to point out. I’m glad you found it interesting! Thanks again for reading. :-
I don’t get an exclusionary tone from this at all, just a desire for accuracy. I think, as another commenter stated above, that there are degrees of expattery, the hierarchy of which I’m constantly trying to determine. And they exist independent of military or civilian status.
I think an expat is a person that lives in a culture that is not their own and seeks to experience it. Let’s consider US to Germany, just because then I’m not talking out of my ass. There are Americans that are here and make the most of it, and others that are counting the days until they get to leave. And civilians aren’t necessarily the former, nor are military folks exclusively the latter.
When you join the military, of your own volition or through familial attachment, being told where you’re going to live (and having little say about it) is part of the package, so the odds are better that a larger proportion of military folks won’t be jazzed about at least one of their assignments. It’s a little more work for an American outside of the military to find a way to get over here for any length of time (local job contract, academic opportunities, etc.), so more of the civilians are probably game - they had to seek it out, as opposed to having it foisted upon them. That said, I’ve personally known some civilians who sought out a stint in Germany and hated the reality of it and some military folks that immersed and made the most of the experience.
Yes, military families get some extra support, but if you’re somewhere with a tiny base, that won’t amount to much. And the bubble might partially be the product of the uniqueness of military culture (extreme discipline and voluntary sacrifice).
Anyhoodle, I’ve never been military, so I don’t know. Cool blog post. I dig.
Sarah I love your very first sentence and I actually wish I had included that in the post. I think that is exactly how I feel and what I’m looking for. I feel like the use of this word so casually takes away from the experience I’m living. While others now feel like I’ve done that to them. In the grand scheme of things, it makes no difference. People can call themselves what they want. I would also agree with you that there are degrees of expat life which may be a better way to describe it in a more specific manner.
I’m so glad you stopped by and took the time to comment. Also glad you enjoyed it. :-)
Ooh interesting! I must admit I don’t know a great deal about military life, though I once had someone try to claim they knew as much about life in Sweden as I did, due to travelling there regularly for business… uh, no. You’re not an ex pat unless you’re an ex pat!
Haha! It’s funny things people say when they really have no idea. Thanks for reading Claire and glad you found it interesting!
To be quite honest, even your post title screams “I’m about to ruffle some feathers”….so, consider mine sufficiently ruffled. I don’t care if you’ve been on both sides of the fence (in fact, I’m quite shocked you’d even go here), but this post is absolutely offensive. You may be stating facts, but the way you’ve written it is clearly asking for military affiliated people, like me, to want to respond negatively. Elitist is the only word that comes to mind when I think of what you’ve written here. This was your opportunity to share with the world that you somehow think your expat experience is more valid…”better”… if you will, than someone living abroad because of the military. Let’s be real…it has nothing to do with the word expat. Who gives a flying fart about the word expat anyway! This seems to be intended (or at least this is how I interpret it) as a post to somehow put us military abroad down…shame us into not using the word you seem to hold in such high regard! I will agree with you that we have it easier in certain respects…but for the things that tend to matter the most (i.e. living far away from family, missing holidays, traveling, putting careers on hold, the language barrier, just to name a few…), I don’t see how we’re that different? I hate that you have to pay German taxes (truly, that’s a bummer), so sorry your gas prices are higher (for real, another bummer), and that you don’t receive any sort of monetary assistance to make your life easier abroad and that you had to fill out gobs of paperwork and go to interviews for visas…that really freakin’ stinks for you. But does paperwork and taxes really make you feel more like an expat? We clearly have a different idea of what expatriation means. The experience, as a whole, means much so more to me than an obviously biased list of one person’s “expat” criteria broken down into bullet points.
In fact, wouldn’t you be considered more of an immigrant than an expat, seeing as you have no ties to America anymore? What do you suggest I call myself then, since expat is clearly not a word for me? I guess I’m just on some divine prolonged vacation, huh? Filled with all the good stuff like extra money and the COMMISSARY! Oh, the wonderful commissary! Guess what, I hardly shop there! I also don’t live on base (I’ve got REAL German landlords!)…or use the on base doctors/dentists…because they’re awful, of course (I pay out of pocket for that, too…my choice). Our cell phones and internet are from a German company on the economy (again, not on base) and I can count how many times I’ve used a VAT form on 1 hand these last 3 years, too. But you wouldn’t know that because you generalize all military families into the same unfortunate boat. There’s no way we could be the “good and true” kind of expat because we might get $10 back from a purchase at IKEA. Shame on me for thinking I could ever be a part of such an elite group of individuals.
If you think my comment is offensive and laced with sarcasm, that’s because it totally is…a fact that you think you’ve hidden in your post by putting a little disclaimer at the top. I’m sure you’ll now unfollow my twitter and my blog, tell me I’m taking this too seriously and that I’m some close-minded military spouse because I refuse to engage in some kind of understanding dialogue…but if I did sit here an say “interesting post and perspective!”, I’d be faking how this really made me feel. It probably took you 20 minutes to write this, but in that 20 minutes you managed to discount and somehow try make less of my time abroad these last 3 years (and every military family abroad who also considers themselves expats—they’re out there, and they’re pissed). Seriously, who cares HOW we got here? While my “expat” experience might be different from yours, I’m still an expat. Paperwork or taxes be damned. Nice try, Deanna.
I actually am sorry you’re so offended. I did take time to write this and didn’t insult anyone personally as you have chosen to do here. I do agree with your point about the term immigrant as I’ve already mentioned. I also agree with other points people have made about the ways certain military members utilize their overseas experience. If there are others out there and “they’re pissed” so be it. A blog is a place for personal voice and expression and I meant no disrespect as I also stated. I do appreciate you commenting. I do respect your opinion. I have no intentions of unfollowing you although I’m sure you’re actually the one who did that if you were even following me? It’s not as if you commented before. I absolutely respect your decision to not be “fake” as I can’t do so either. I enjoy the hypocrisy throughout your comment. And I’m honestly not offended although since we are being honest, I’m thinking that’s what you were hoping for.
I am truly sorry that a post you feel is ridiculous and incorrect on so many levels could “discount” and “somehow make less of” your time abroad.
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
I am curious, as I know some others are, what you were implying when you said you were “quote shocked” I’d “even go there” when stating I’ve lived on both sides of the fence.
You know there’s a big red ‘X’ button up in the corner you can use for when you don’t like something? (especially when that something (as you go to such lengths to point out)) has no bearing on your Actual, Real Life…
Deanna’s post was written with such diplomacy and courtesy. She takes everyone’s opinion into account.
If you disagree with her, I would love to see you respond to her without being offensive or sarcastic. She neither discounted nor made “less” of your time abroad.
Maybe next time, wait a day to let this marinate before you tell her to unfollow your twitter and blog. She’s not that kind of person. Look at how she responded to your vitriolic comment.
She’s a class act.
Amen, Samara!
Thank you!
I don’t know that I could ever respond to such nasty comments with Deanna’s graciousness.
I’m proud to know her on the blogosphere.
Aww, thanks SW! <3
Thanks, Anni!
Hi Deanna,
Someone posted your link on twitter, and while I don’t know your story, I couldn’t just sit by and not comment, because you made a very generalized statement about a very resilient group of people. You may not have intended to hurt feelings, but you did, and I am absolutely offended. I packed up my bags and ALL of my belongings, I shipped my car, and my husband and I moved to Italy with our dog, where we lived for two years. By your definition of “expat” stated above (a person who lives outside their native country), we became expats. I was an expat. I lived, breathed, and embraced myself and my family in the culture.
Not only that, but we did not live on base or anywhere near our base, for that matter. We lived in a small, rural Italian town where we shopped in the local stores, made friends with the locals, went to an Italian dentist and vet, and learned the language. I won’t even get into the ordeal of obtaining our visas, because that would be too long to go into detail—they absolutely weren’t just handed to us. On top of that, I had my daughter in Italy. Yes, she was born on base, but we spent our fair share of time in the Italian hospitals, as well. There were more than a handful of times during my pregnancy and her birth, because we lived in a foreign country, that were far from the comforts of a cushy American lifestyle. Don’t even get me started on what we had to do paperwork-wise because she was born in a foreign country.
What upsets me the most about your post is that people who don’t know a thing about the military, or the specifics of an OCONUS move, now have prejudice against military members living overseas. You’ve made being an expat into something so prestigious, when really, we all go through the struggle of being in a new country. We’re all thousands of miles away from home, and the fact that there’s belittling going on to determine who has it worse, is just ridiculous. That is what offends me. Instead, why can’t we all empower and help fellow expats instead of making them not feel worthy of being there?
I hear what you’re saying and I stand by my post. I do feel though that it is possibly based more on people’s experiences as well as different bases and countries (which I actually stated in the post that this was in regards to US and Germany as I can only write about my own experience). And I agree that it would be nice to empower everyone. Maybe you should speak to the military people who look down on me as a local national and not even an American. Those people who are supposedly going through the same experience as me (not even close) who won’t lend a helping hand. It goes both ways. We are all entitled to our opinions. Thank you for sharing yours.
What a silly, silly thing to even write a post about. The whole thing is a logical fallacy. You have the definition neatly placed at the beginning of the post and then you spend several bullet points splitting hairs as to why someone who lives outside their native country is not an expat.
If someone in the military wants to use the word, why begrudge them? If they were residing in a foreign country, but not on a base whilst on military orders do they then achieve expat status? What about individuals whose companies pay for them to move, find an apartment, pay for a fancy relocation company that fills out their visa paperwork and residency permits? Are they not expats?
We’re all on the same team. Sometimes lonely, always far from home and always in need of an extra friend. The whole label thing is a little too “Mean Girls” for me.
It would be so nice if we were really on the same team. I could’ve written a post about the horrible experiences I’ve had with the military now that I’m here and not part of it any longer. I could have written about how exclusionary the military spouses have been and how “Mean Girls” they are. But I didn’t. And as far as a silly thing to write? Well, we all have blogs to do with as we please. It’s our place to share our views, opinions, experiences as well as receive criticism for those same things. I appreciate your comment, your opinion and thanks for stopping by.
Oh sweet Deanna, how silly you are to think that your own blog is a suitable place for your own opinion. Clearly you must be nuts.
I just don’t see why you’re taking flak for this. It’s so black-and-white, but with people (it seems) feeling you’re attacking their entitlement to say that the sky is yellow if they want it to be.
That’s one of the meanest things I’ve ever read on a comment.
“What a silly silly thing thing to even write a post about.”
Wow. You should read some of my posts. I write about blow jobs. I write about douchecanoes. I write about whatever I want.
That’s kind of the point of a blog, isn’t it? Our voice. Our opinion. If I want to write about the sweat on my boyfriend’s ball sack, I will.
Actually, thank you for giving me my next post. “The Sweat on my Boyfriend’s Ball Sack.” Awesome.
This begs the question- what on earth is a douchecanoe?
Well, it’s something I invented. Although some people (Twindaddy) beg to differ.
Many of my readers love when I use that word so much, I dedicated an entire post to it. It’s not typically good form to post a link in the comment section, but I don’t thing Deanna will mind. Since you asked, and all…
http://samaraspeaks.wordpress.com/2014/01/13/tippecanoe-and-douchecanoe/
That’s interesting and vaguely hilarious. And I’ve always felt that links within comments are perfectly fine as long as it’s relevant and/or asked for. I followed your blog- your writing style is wickedly fun.
You clearly have great taste. Samara is an amazing writer.
Thank you!
Wait, what? What’s vaguely hilarious? My blog, or my explanation of douche canoe?
I would never post a link in a comment section if I didn’t know and love the blogger. It’s not my style.
Thank you for the follow! I’ll do the same, and we have the amazing Deanna to thank!
The post you linked specifically, the explanation of douchecanoe made me giggle. I never really gave much thought to that particular ex-Pres before.
Neither did I- until my son saw that Snapple cap.
And then to be honest? My 2 crazy blogging friends had just joined me in crowning 2014 “the Year of the Douche Canoe. I wrote it to make them laugh!
They completely hijacked my blog that day, posting back and forth 50 times. We’re about to do that, if we don’t stop!
Ha ha ha! Love this comment :) Did you write that post?
No, Deanna did!
But- I DID write a post in which I used that expression just as I said I would.
Thanks for reading! Hope to see you around the sphere!
Deanna and I are both part of a new collective. Sisterwivesspeak.com
It’s 9 women who write and support each other.
xo,
S
Yep, I’ve read about it on Deanna’s other blog! Really nice idea!
Oh, the irony. If it’s SO silly to write a post about, then what does that say about you taking the time to, not only read it, but comment on it?
This is a blog. Blogs are for expressing opinions. I find it quite rude for you to insult Deanna’s opinion. You don’t have to agree, but it’s kind of classless to belittle her opinion.
Agreed! I have done my best to be nice, but it is a little tacky! Thanks, TD!
You’re quite welcome, of course.
The oddest thing is that the hassle you’re getting from those in/associated with the military over something as (relatively) irrelevant to the day-to-day matter of living out their lives as the semantics and proper application of the word ‘expatriate’, is lending weight to your suggestion that (as a concept of a lifestyle) it’s something rather different than simply ‘living in another country’.
You’d think (in bald, semantic terms) that the inclusion of the suffix ‘ex-’ would be sufficient to clarify the matter with regard to the level of ‘retained ties with one’s native country’ (i.e. none) which qualify the notion.
Fuck. It’s a prefix. Who even cares. The point stands even if the writer has to bow out in shame ;)
Exactly! That’s what I was thinking. The people who are the most upset are the ones saying it shouldn’t matter. They also don’t realize this post has received support by people who are in the military. Thanks for the support and commenting!
Or perhaps they do, but surely a military-based opinion which agrees with you is ALSO to be discounted on account of not being in agreement with their own?
Good point. I’m not sure how that would go. Only one of them commented on here while the others messaged me privately.
Seems to me like, overtly or not, you have people from all kinds of sides of this fence in support of your opinion. Which is a nice thing. Hang onto that.
At least none of your haters has (yet) taken their wrath to such extremes that they gave up on the comment box and wrote an ENTIRE POST decrying you as an awful, terrible person with no higher thought, function or purpose whatsoever, who had deliberately set out to (and succeeded) massively offend people, guising yourself as something worthwhile when in fact you were just purile and repugnant.
There was blood on my sheets after that.
Wow. No not yet, although I haven’t checked. Nor have I gone back to Shannon’s blog. I don’t feel it necessary as that is her space and I responded to her and her post. I’m so sorry that happened to you. :-( Is that post still online? You’ll have to message it to me if so.
I thought Shannon’s was reasonable. It wasn’t offensive, but it still defended the entitlement matter to a word which is inherently NOT for yo-yos.
I’ll see if I can find it. To be fair it was a shitty thing I did, and the response came from hurt. But still…
I agree and she and I also spoke via Twitter and confirmed no hard feelings. Her response made me feel like this was generating a good, objective, intellectual discussion. Something where we were truly sharing our perspectives and respectfully disagreeing when necessary. And now today, we get the emotional posts in which some clearly wrote in a frenzy.
Her response (and your feeling) was the right one. Respectful disagreement is fine.
Firing-squad stuff isn’t, but it comes from hurt and (again) opinion. Which, let’s face it - this is the internets - is as valid as yours. And if they want to suggest yours isn’t, well, neither is theirs. They cannot have their cake and eat it, too.
On the whole, you’re doing well at graciously disregarding the frenzies. Keep up the most excellent work.
Well, I thought I would comment as an ex military brat AND having lived overseas in a non military situation. They were both difficult and my mom had two kids abroad. I have to be honest, I was slightly…
SLIGHTLY
offended at first.
My mom and dad made a point to take my sisters and I off base to experience everything in our host countries of Germany and Italy. We learned the language in school and lessons are provided to the soldiers and spouses if they are so inclined. I will only take issue with you saying that our experiences are different. I don’t believe that to be true.
We all miss home. We all have to adjust. The issue is that some families SOME do that by not immersing themselves in the culture. It’s easier and feels like home to make and only hang with American friends. I was living in Paris for 8 months not affiliated with the military, but as a genuine expat and incredibly guilty of that.
There was a bit of generalization here and you know I think you’re lovely and didn’t mean to offend at all. I actually don’t care either way whether someone calls me an expat or not, as living in Europe made me realize that yeah our country is kind of an ass right now, but anywhere I go, I’m still American and I’m actually incredibly proud of that.
Except when people from other countries speak 3 languages fluently, then I feel like an asshole.
Oh! And that is so true about the languages. I always feel like an asshole when I struggle with my German and here they are, speaking German, English and usually French!
Coming from someone who has never had either experience, it was really interesting read about the difference between the two - and in the end I agree that the word should be reserved specifically for those like yourself, fully immersed in the experience of living in another country. You have to go through so many technicalities to live there! Yeesh! Very informative, thank you for sharing this. :)
It’s definitely a personal opinion based on my sole experience. While they may seem like apple to apples, they are so very different (for me). Thanks for reading and glad you found it informative! And honestly, glad you haven’t been a part of either so there were no worries of me offending you. :-)
And that is a rambly comment from me to you ;)
Haha, rambly but well done. I’m sorry you were offended at first, even slightly. I can see how you would be and I can see the points you mention. I’m completely okay with people disagreeing. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. And I’m fully open to the discussion. I wanted to write this to voice my opinion based on my experiences (as I mentioned). The two have been completely different even with me living off base before and even working for a German company. That life I had with the military umbrella was not the same and it was a harsh reality for me when I moved here this time without it. So, I think it boils down to experience and perspective as do all opinions. I’m so glad that we can still be SW and you don’t hate me. :-) I really do appreciate your point of view and I’m glad you had the experience you did. xx
Great post. I learned something…a few things. You have every right to clarify the definition of expat and I don’t find it elitist or rude. Simply, it is pointing out the differences between two groups of people. Military members often have no choice where they are assigned right? So the benefits make sense. It also makes sense that you, not being military, would want to define yourself justly. Military expats maybe a good way to describe a military family but I think just being in the military is enough of a description. I dunno I am arms-length from these issues.
I think that’s one thing I could’ve included, that this post was a way to define my lifestyle and how I see it differently. Although, I’m not sure that matters. But good writing elicits emotion and I’ve clearly done that! ;-) I agree that military should be enough. That’s all I ever used and never felt the need for something else. I didn’t think it fit then and I don’t now. Thanks for reading, your support and weighing in!
Interesting post, fascinating comments! Wow. You really had either lovers or haters, and the haters didn’t handle themselves very gracefully…..but YOU did, which impresses the shit outta me. I’m going to remember this in case I ever have angry commenters to deal with. Or I’ll call you and ask you to answer for me. haha! Plus, it’s all good in the end (pun intended) cuz now Samara is going to do a mention of sweaty ball sacks on her blog. It’s a win-win.
Haha! I suppose my former social work career helped prepare me for conflict resolution. :-) Seriously though, it actuality the definition leaves it open for interpretation so I respect the fact that others have a different opinion. That’s what makes it interesting! And that is the icing in the cake about Samara, our sexy SW! Total win-win! Oh, and I’ll definitely handle the haters if you ever have any. ;-) xx
Pingback: My Response to the Response | From Casinos To Castles
I have not lived abroad for more than 3 months so I don’t have considerable experience to offer. However, I will say that there seemed to be a marked difference between my living situation and those that mostly kept to their own culture. I got out into the culture as much as possible even though I was traveling with an American team. Many on our team were religious, so would attend an American church. While I was also religious, I made the choice to attend a national church. I think this massively enhanced my experience there.
I heard a lot about the expat community among the oil typhoons in the region. To me it seemed sad because they seemed cloistered in their own little “people group.”
Overall though I don’t know if I can offer a helpful perspective at all, just that either way, I really think getting out and experiencing the culture you’re in is vital.
I definitely agree about getting out and experiencing other cultures. I think the cliques are sad and disappointing which happens in any aspect of life, including online. Thanks for offering up your own thoughts on the subject.
Ah, other bloggers causing trouble - love it ;) And totally agree. Being military is like living in a bubble.
Haha! I was just going to message you and say, “look what I’ve gone and done”.
I was in Munich for a few days so only catching up now! The good news is that whenever you stir up something like this, there’s some truth in your post - whether people want to admit it or not ;)
Ohhhh. In Germany again huh? I hope that’s a good sign!
Wow. Good point. I hadn’t thought of it like that. :-)
Take it from one who knows ;) Oh, Munich is amazing! It’s like a different world there!
I read this quick on Saturday, and reread it again just now (and all the comments). I don’t see any intent to offend in the post just separate the experiences, to which I can’t do having no experience with the military. It was general, because sometimes you have to be general rather than make a 100 yard long post of all the potential exemptions. I found Shannon’s response nicely measured to talk about some distinctions, but it’s respectful.
You can let yourself get offended by anything on the internet, but the smart thing to do it step back and cool off before commenting - putting real thought into it before letting emotions flood/cloud your normal response. I saw it trying to be respectful, so I would expect others to be respectful back. I stand by you, dear. Don’t let the haters get you down. =)
I agree and it’s so easy to read something and react immediately with emotion. I have almost done that myself, but didn’t because I don’t see the purpose. I can agree or disagree and leave it at that. If it something truly offensive and disgusting, then unfollow, don’t read or what have you. Or write your own post. lol Thanks for the support! :-)
“I truly mean no harm to anyone’s feelings.” <— You did your job, Deanna. :) Great informative post!
Thanks Ericka! I thought so too, but this is a great writerly lesson (not that I would change a thing except maybe the response post).
This was such an interesting post, as I have no experience in either situation. I don’t see your post as elitist at all but instead simply pointing out the facts. You do have so many more hoops to jump through, and though you share a sense of loneliness in being overseas, your experience is still quite different from a military family’s. Because you have the experience of both, I think it’s wonderful you’ve started this discussion. People will obviously disagree with you, but from a semantics stand-point, I think you’ve proven your point eloquently.
Ashley, thank you for pointing out that shared loneliness and how that alone does not make something necessarily an expat experience. You can feel that way living in your own country and moving out of state. I also like the use of “semantics” in your comment, because that’s a big part of it as well. Thanks for reading and the support!
I read this the other day and did a LOT of head nodding, so imagine my surprise to come back to the um…. “lively” discussion.
Honestly, you wrote exactly what I’ve been thinking for a long time here. I’ve gotten close enough to the military in Germany to know a lot of the things they have to deal with vs what I’ve had to deal with doing this all on my own for the last five years, and there is a WORLD of difference. And some of the things I found out about their perks pissed me off, quite frankly. I’m not saying the life of deployed personnel, or their families are easy, as I absolutely know they have their challenges. Those challenges are just immensely different to what I (and you) have dealt with. Should they be called expats? Color me elitist but I don’t really think so either. (And don’t even get me started on study abroad students… Prague scarred me for life).
Bottom line: Great post, and never let anyone make you feel like crap for expressing your opinion in your space.
Thank you so much for this! I think one of the problems is people think that because we are saying the experiences are so different that that somehow discounts their experience. To me, that’s irrational and must be their own insecurity. I never judged THEIR experience but pointed out facts about the differences. I think it’s hard to see when you’re immersed in the bubble. Thanks for your comment and the support AND the follow! Greatly appreciated!
This post really hit home for me! I am a military brat that grew up in Würzburg to American parents. Then I went back home to the U.S. to go to high school and for my Bachelor’s degree. Now I am back again, this time living with my German boyfriend and working for a German company. I do not have any contact with Americans, except for one really good friend in this region who is also married to a German man. I remember growing up here in Germany and the many challenges that my mom had-raising us young and crazy kids while my Dad was always gone. We lived in a small German village, but we had access to the base and went to American schools. At that time as a child and teenager, I always felt the clear seperation that we were from the US-and the ‘others’ were Germans. Stepping into the expat life, I do not feel a seperation any longer between me and the Germans. Of course, I will always be a ‘foreign’ person here-but I live my life just the way that they do, give or take a few differences. I speak German in my job and at home. I respect their culture and try my best to adjust myself to fit their mold when I am among them. It’s interesting now that I live in Stuttgart near the military base and when I see the people venturing off base to go shopping, I can’t help but think of my poor mom who was trying her best for us-overwhelmed on many levels and without my dad most of the time. I feel bad for them on some level because of my past. On the other hand, I see people venturing out that did not bother to learn the language, customs, etc. and then they consider it a BIG step for themselves that they actually went off base for once. This is unbelievable and embarrassing to me as an American person. I can’t handle it to the point where I want to run away when I see people from the base. This is not meant to offend anyone, just my personal experience. If given the chance to sit down and talk to them, I don’t think we’d have anything in common and I would have more in common with a German local. I totally agree with your post and I am so glad that you brought up this point!!!
Pingback: The Week in Germany: Expat Meetups, Dresden, Luminale, Words | Young Germany
Hi-great post and interesting conversation from the community (although I’m a little too ADD to have read all of the comments-but the ones I read were interesting). I absolutely get your point, and it’s terrifically valid-but it needs to acknowledge that life overseas as an “expat” falls on a spectrum. And military folks can choose where on that spectrum they fall-many of them leaning hard on the crutch of Uncle Sam and the base facilities (and sitting on the “not expat” side of the spectrum), but some choose to lean as lightly as possible-and you really ought to give those people credit for being adventurous and very much “expats.” When we lived in England with the military for 4 years, we lived a ways off base in a lovely, small town, sent our kids to British schools, used the National Health system, walked the mile on foot to buy groceries at Sainsbury’s or the local farmer’s market, walked home loaded down with groceries, etc. Of course, we didn’t pay UK taxes, and we could sign up for Girl Scouts on base when our local British group had a waiting list. But we tried our best to BE British (I think I fooled no one but ourselves, but my kids blended so very well). We’ll never out-expat your experience, but it’s not a competition and we truly were immersively (is that a word?) British.
On the other hand, when we lived in Turkey for 3 years, we leaned more heavily on Uncle Sam. We did learn the language somewhat (I could pass for Turkish if I kept the conversation to certain subjects, but drew a blank if it veered too far afield). But you make choices. When I was pregnant, I went to a Turkish doctor for many appointments, but delivered my baby with an American doctor in Europe because our Turkish hospital had some infection control issues. So, yes, I relied on my safety net-but I tried to immerse deeply where I could.
We are about to move to Germany, and I’m brushing up on my Deutsch. Obviously, our immersion into German culture will not be as easy as our immersion into British, but we will try not to lean too heavily on our American crutch. I, too, am embarassed by Americans who don’t learn the language or venture far from base. What is the point? And I know my experience won’t throw me straight into the deep end, the way yours may have. But please know that some of us try hard to make the most of our overseas experience-please don’t laugh at us as we dogpaddle in the shallows for awhile…we will get out into the deep end after some practice. You definitely do have to earn the right to call yourself an expat when you are military-but some of us try our best!
(Oops, that was long winded!) Thanks for the great blog!
Hi! I can agree to your point of there being a spectrum and think that’s an ideal solution perhaps. I don’t laugh at anyone nor do I judge them. Everyone has their own experiences and opinions. This blog resulted from so many military members I keep coming across calling themselves expats with an expat blog that gives a lot of advice with military stuff with sometimes quite a few complaints of the host country. It also comes from my experience in actually living both lifestyles. I don’t necessarily think anything has to be earned. I’m also not sure everyone can understand my point unless they’ve lived it as well. Based on what you said about your UK experience, it definitely sounds like you can understand!
Anyway, thank you for reading and taking the time to comment. I really am a nice person but I still have opinions like everyone else. Hope to see you around and good luck on your move!